Heart of Motion

The Marathon Mindset with Susanne Mueller

• Susannah Steers / Susanne Mueller • Season 2 • Episode 14

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Susanne Mueller, executive leadership coach and marathon runner, shares how the "marathon mindset" applies to success in both physical challenges and professional life.

• Building consistency through regular physical activity creates mental resilience and healthy lifestyle habits
• The true value lies in the preparation—not just the achievement itself
• Mueller's 5K Formula for Success: Start, Team/Training, Evaluation, Pacing, Success
• "Pole pole" (slowly, slowly): Sometimes slowing down is necessary to ultimately go faster
• Cross-cultural awareness comes from meeting people where they are rather than where we think they should be
• Physical movement can help women navigate menopause and maintain wellbeing
• For women feeling "invisible" in midlife: speak up, have prepared questions ready, and carry yourself with the confidence of an Olympic medalist

Where to find Susanne Mueller

Susanne Mueller Website

Susanne Mueller On INSTAGRAM

Susannah Mueller on LinkedIn

Check out Susanne's podcast "Take it From the Iron Woman" to hear inspiring stories from smart, sophisticated, energetic people from around the world.


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Heart of Motion Podcast host Susannah Steers is a Pilates & Integrated Movement Specialist and owner of Moving Spirit Pilates in North Vancouver, BC. She is passionate about movement, about connections and about life.

Through movement teaching, speaking, and facilitating workshops, she supports people in creating movement practices that promote fitness from the inside out. She loves building community, and participating in multi-disciplinary collaborations.

Along with her friend and colleague Gillian McCormick, Susannah also co-hosts The Small Conversations for a Better World podcast – an interview based podcast dedicated to promoting the kind of conversations about health that can spark positive change in individuals, families, communities and across the globe.

Social Media Links:
Moving Spirit Pilates Instagram
Moving Spirit Pilates Facebook

Susannah Steers Instagram

Susannah Steers:

Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast. I'm Susannah Steers and I'll be your host as we explore the heart, soul and science of movement as a pathway to more active, vibrant and connected living. Nothing happens until something moves, so let's get started.

Susannah Steers:

You've likely heard that there are differences in the way that people learn things. They process information in different ways. Some are visual learners who have to see things to make sense of them. Auditory learners take things in more fully when they hear the information. Me, I'm a kinesthetic learner. For things to land for me, I have to sense them in my body or in my movement. Somehow, perceiving things through that lens and my connection to the people and to the world around me helps me process whatever information is coming my way, and I don't know for sure, but I suspect the same might be true for my guest today.

Susannah Steers:

Susanne Mueller is an executive leadership coach with a passion for cross-cultural and mindful awareness and global talent management. She's led change initiatives, team building and leadership development efforts for Nestle, a Fortune 100 company, and has coached leaders in diverse industries like finance, pharma, manufacturing, media and sports. She's also the host of the Take it From the Iron Woman podcast, where she inspires and empowers others with cool stories from everyday, smart, sophisticated, energetic people from around the world. I actually met Susanne for the first time as part of Donna Cravotta's Real 50 Over 50 project. In Susanne's spare time, she is also a marathon runner and no, not just one marathon, but 26. She's an Ironman triathlete and she's climbed Mount Kilimanjaro. She's a certified running coach. She has a TEDx talk called Running and Life your 5K Formula for Success. I feel like, in our shared interest in connecting life and movement, I found kind of a kindred spirit and I'm thrilled to share her with you today.

Susannah Steers:

Welcome to the Heart of Motion, Susanne!

Susanne Mueller:

Thank you so much for having me, and what a nice introduction.

Susannah Steers:

Well, I feel like there are a million and one different directions we could take our conversation, but maybe let's just start with some movement. You describe yourself as a weekend athlete, and when I look at that list of things that you've been enjoying, I need to know what that means for you. What kind of a weekend athlete are you?

Susanne Mueller:

Yeah, I feel like there's people, athletes, who are like Olympians. So I'm not an Olympian, so that's why I call myself a weekend athlete, because we all have a job from Monday through Friday or whatever time zone you're working in. So that's why I call myself the weekend athlete. But actually it's not true, because I try to run every other day or do something active every single day. Some days are a little easier than others. I think it's more like a hobby athlete, maybe we should say. But I'm very committed and it also helps me to have a healthy lifestyle and also a healthy mindset. I think that's the most important thing when I talk about moving is life, and life is moving.

Susannah Steers:

Have you always been an active person Like did you grow up with your family doing active things?

Susanne Mueller:

Yeah, I grew up in Switzerland and obviously I'm very fortunate, like we grew up on a lake and we can look at the snow-capped mountains, so swimming in the summer, biking, and then every weekend we could go to the mountains and sometimes as kids we'd be like, oh, we go to the mountains again. But in hindsight, going to the mountains was so beautiful and we would also, in the winter, put the skins on our skis. So we do the uphill skiing and then we would ski down in the virgin snow. And when I say that I'm like, oh, this was so beautiful, there was nobody, nobody, those lines you see at the lifts. We just would go. And then I remember I was singing when I was skiing and the snow was just up to my hips and this was just fantastic

Susannah Steers:

and there's something about being out in that cool crisp fresh air with the sun and the snow.

Susannah Steers:

That's pretty special.

Susanne Mueller:

And I would like to say I just added caving to my activities. And when you just say that the air and the snow and everything so while I was in the cave, this was the first time for me I was reflecting on there is no air, like not too much air. There are no flowers, no sky, no snow, no anything. So to be confined in something was not really what I liked, but it was a great experience. To add something new and that's what I also want to say is like adding something new to whatever you do is also moving your life and, yeah, being happy in the way what you're doing.

Susannah Steers:

I wanted to ask you about something. I live in North Vancouver, british Columbia, which is sort of a Mecca for mountain bikers, and I have friends who will quite often talk about needing their type two fun and that sort of refers to the type two muscle fibers in the body that are, you know, those big mover muscles, and it quite often means that people are doing something that requires some kind of intense physicality. Given you know all of the things that you like to do climbing Kilimanjaro and the caving and all of these things would you describe yourself as someone who likes to kind of live on the edge?

Susanne Mueller:

Maybe yes, so I have to say I like to be in control and I might say that because I did skydiving and I was like, oh, here I'm not in control of what I'm doing. When I do swimming, I'm in control, biking, running caving not so much because I had to go with other people, but basically what I'm doing. I'm in control of what I'm doing. And I also do yoga, where this is a different way of being in control. I don't think I live at the edge because I would not like to do bungee jumping Right, don't invite me for this, I can come and take pictures, but I would not want to do that, yeah, I'm with you there, so it's a lot more about the things you can learn and develop skill around, perhaps as you do these things.

Susanne Mueller:

I think so yeah, and having fun, I think, when I'm afraid maybe that's the way. I would challenge myself when I'm afraid I don't like it. So I mean, like running is okay. Yes, I've fallen. I had to go to the hospital. I have four stitches on my chin, Not a good experience, but you recuperate, you get up and you kind of like, hey, get a life and move on With the bike. I've fallen Swimming.

Susanne Mueller:

Yeah, I just like to be in control and not to be fearful, right and that is a practice and not to be fearful, right, and that is a practice, I mean, I think about it.

Susannah Steers:

The longest race that I've ever run is a 10K. It was fun, but I'm not really a racing type. If I'm running, I like to just go out and get lost in the woods. When I think about things like running marathons and triathlons and climbing mountains, there's a certain kind of training and conditioning you need to do for your body to get there, to prepare for your race and to prepare your mind for the hardships that you might endure and you know even just the physical hardships that you might endure during the process. What kinds of things have you learned about yourself as you dove into these adventures, including your caving experience? If that's fresh, yeah.

Susanne Mueller:

So what I want to say is a lot of people they just focus on that marathon, the Ironman, the Mount Kilimanjaro, but it's a whole preparation and nobody sees that. I mean people call me up and say, hey, there is a marathon tomorrow in Los Angeles. Come, and I was like I cannot run a marathon tomorrow. A marathon, I mean, some people do it. I would not recommend it. It's not worthwhile because you're suffering so much. After you can have micro tears, and this is where you come in as a Pilates instructor. It's the preparation, it's the mindset and let's take the marathon mentality. So the New York City Marathon is in November. Basically, you start to train. I want to say, in February, when you sign up, you want to have a weekly mileage that you are comfortable. So let's say 20, 30 miles, 30, 40 kilometers per week. This is a commitment.

Susanne Mueller:

Then July comes around and this is when the serious training is happening and people are like what do you mean? I'm like I need to go and do a long run. No, let's have fun, let's go for a glass of wine. Well, we can do that next week. It's not possible. Comes October, I am like I don't want to do this anymore. This is hard. So this is when the mindset kicks in. And what I do? I usually go and buy a new t-shirt to motivate myself. This is a little cheesy, but I'm like I need the motivation for myself. Okay, I have a new t-shirt, maybe new sunglasses. This really helps for me. And then it's pulling through. And that's exactly when people say you're so good, you can do tough things. This is the marathon mindset.

Susanne Mueller:

And then, when the day comes, the first weekend in November, I'm ready because they have trained for four years. So I'm as a me as a weekend warrior. I have trained for the whole year for that one event. So it's like the dessert on the menu. You're going for this Michelin star restaurant, this is the event, and then you have the medal in your hand and you are on this runner's high. This is what you want to go through. But I had once a marathon where I was like this is so hard, I don't like this anymore. And then I had to remind myself this is not my job and that's why I say I'm a weekend warrior. This is not my job. I wish I could say I make money with this, but I don't make money with the running. So it's about that mindset, but it's also about the preparation, and preparation is for everything in the job, in the relationship. Everything is a preparation and there is something.

Susannah Steers:

As you say, everybody focuses on the sexy thing. Right, I've done the big thing, and part of the preparation is that daily, grounded, consistent, showing up, doing the little things. And when you've got little setbacks, instead of feeling completely derailed, how can you stay on the path without losing your way? And I love your description of when you hit that period toward the end of your before you get right to the race time, when you're in the drudgery of it, what do you do? And I love that little t-shirt and sunglasses because it is something like that. Just perks you right up and, okay, I'm headed out for my run today. I love it.

Susanne Mueller:

Or it can be something simple right, get a nice coffee, get a manicure, anything that brings happiness to you. I think it's sometimes we take ourselves so serious and we're like I gotta go through this. And again it's about following that plan. I look at my week, let's say on Sunday, and I was like this is what I want to do this week and you follow that plan. And the better you follow the plan, the easier it is when you're well-trained and also happy for that big day.

Susannah Steers:

But I think also every now and then and this can't be a consistent thing if you're on a plan, but every now and then you have to chuck the plan, you know.

Susanne Mueller:

That's the most important. Don't be so hard on yourself end of September, early October, when you're like doing all those high mileage days. I am so tired that I allow myself to skip a workout and sleep, because I learned and this is from an Olympian sleep is also part of the training and I do not negotiate my sleep. I cannot pull an all-nighter. I need to go to bed by 10, 10.30. That's my best time. If I deviate, I get sick.

Susannah Steers:

Well, we talked about this actually with an Olympic athlete not too long ago on the podcast the company. Jane is an Olympic kayaker and she was talking about how, as an Olympian, her job was training for her races. That was her job. Now she's training athletes who are not necessarily training for the Olympics. They have day jobs, they have things that they're doing, whether it's age or fitness or whatever their situation is. She has to recognize, and they have to recognize, that there are certain realities about that and you can't train the way you might train as an Olympic athlete because you still have to go to work and you have to maybe look after the kids and you have to ... So there's sort of a reality check that we have to do in terms of what we can accomplish given the life we want to lead and its choices. I'm not saying that it's one or the other.

Susanne Mueller:

I think it's also a balance right. So obviously I had a stressful job and the running was so helpful also a balance right. So obviously I had a stressful job and the running was so helpful. And also the running in group. While people always say, oh, running is a solitary activity, it's actually fun to train with people and you become a little competitive. You do like speed workouts together. That's where I was a running coach for the New York Road Runners for many years. It's about that support group that you get and the best people I met there and we still keep friends through ups and downs. So it's to find that balance.

Susannah Steers:

Well, you have done a TEDx talk and presented a talk that connected the process of running a 5K to sort of a success formula for life. Can you tell us a little more about that and what inspired you to do it?

Susanne Mueller:

It goes back to all the preparation. I was just reflecting this morning. I reached out to the organizer and was like, oh, can I do a TEDx? And now it all seems so easy. But we all know it's about preparation. It's a mental preparation to do TEDx. So it's about creating a message that resonates with the people and that's forward thinking. And then the preparation. I rehearsed my talk before I got up before breakfast. Before lunch I went outside. I rehearsed. People are thinking, oh, she's talking to herself. Yes, I was talking to myself.

Susanne Mueller:

And then when you stand on that red circle, that red carpet, you have one opportunity to give a good talk. And I actually was very proud of myself. It almost felt as if there was like I was in a different world. I was able to observe myself while I was talking and I have to say this was really cool. And then I was like did I say everything I wanted to say? So I went to the replay. It's an experience and an honor to be on that TEDx red carpet.

Susanne Mueller:

But then also it was frightening. I'm like, oh, everybody in the world can see my TEDx talk, but it's a really cool message. Sometimes I look at it again, I watch it again. I was like, yeah, this is what I stand for, those five steps. So it's the start, the team and training, the E for evaluation and I use P for pacing and then the S for success. And somebody once said to me yeah, success is a given. I was like, no, when we work towards that success, to stay successful is actually equally hard to get to that level. So I think it's really a cool message.

Susannah Steers:

Well, so do you use similar strategies in your executive coaching role? Are you using similar strategies?

Susanne Mueller:

Yeah, I use that framework. So it's kind of like we start somewhere, we set goals. Let's say we work on a project, or a lot of people come to me when they're stuck in their lives. They're like where can I go? So the team for the team, and training is like what other training do you need or who do you need to connect with? So that's the networking element also, or learning from others. And then there are a lot of people are like what is that?

Susanne Mueller:

Sometimes we let's say also with a marathon, we train for a race and then halfway through we get sick or injured. Well, then we need to reevaluate. Can we do that race? Same in the business. Is it worthwhile for me continuing or should I change my goals a little bit? And actually it's not a weakness If you say let's switch directions and other people. No, this is my weakness. No, it's to be honest and authentic. So that's reevaluation and evaluation piece is really an important message. And also the self-awareness to kind of like what can I do? What do I want to do? Who do I stand for? This is really important.

Susanne Mueller:

And then the P that's the pacing. I take that from the Mount Kilimanjaro, because there you say, in order to go fast, you need to go slow. That's the way. So in the local language it's pole, pole. So don't go fast, go slow, go slow. And especially in today's times where everything is so fast, we use chat GPT to be even faster. It's actually to slow down. Yes, we can use the chat GPT, but then reflect a little bit and add your own things to it and take that time. And I think that's why the running, even as a slower runner, is really important to go at your pace, reflect what is important to you and what. I also encourage people to go alone. That alone time. We sometimes we don't take that time. I think that's a, that P, the pacing, is really important. And then the success. Obviously, when we have the medal on and we're on that runner's high or we're on top of Kilimanjaro, we have the picture. This is important, but working towards that success is a lot of work.

Susannah Steers:

Everybody is looking for the quick fix, the hacks, the tips and tricks and all of those things, and I encounter that sometimes in the Pilates studio as well. People want the results yesterday. And you know the hard thing is, if we've been living and doing things a certain way for a period of time, it's going to take a little while to turn the boat around a little bit and and shift into a new direction. And it's our thought patterns and our movement patterns and all of those things. It's, um, it's. You know, in my world there's a saying that every movement is a whole body movement. Nothing happens in isolation, and I think that's true in just about any scenario. I would love to talk to you a little bit about some of your thoughts about ways that we can connect our physical pursuits, even in just the ways you've described already, to success in business, whether it's stress management or problem solving. What do you see the connections?

Susanne Mueller:

I think all of the above. Again, I call it the marathon mindset, and whoever is a marathon runner they know at kilometer I think that's 30, mile 18 is kind of like they say you hit the wall. So we want to train to not hit that wall. So either it's hydrating, eating enough, sleeping enough, and then also, what is important, to get through those difficult times. We know these days the world is a little upside down, so I think we need to be in a way calm and composed to get through difficult times. But also we call that the autopilot. So maybe now is the time to go on the autopilot and do what you can do, what you can do best. And then we come out at the end of the tunnel. I always say there's always an end, like the light at the end of the tunnel, even if you think like, oh, there's nothing, I'm the worst person, I'm not good enough.

Susanne Mueller:

I think in the marathon mindset is like I remember one time I fell. I was dirty and not a good feeling. And what did I do? My friend said let's sign up for a half Ironman. So an hour ago I fell. I was not the happiest person.

Susanne Mueller:

I go home, I take a shower. I have a coffee, my bagel, my fantastic breakfast. What do I do? I sign up for another challenge. Sign up for a challenge, and I don't mean sign up for a challenge like a half Ironman or full Ironman. Sign up for something that you like. It can be going to the museum. That was always helping me. Something different. Go for the arts. Go with a friend. Have a coffee. If you can't afford a dinner or lunch, go for a coffee. Go for a brunch, whatever is possible. I think these are the small items that can make a huge difference, and everybody is a little different. I think you just have to be cognizant of what your limits are and work within those limits, the current limits.

Susannah Steers:

Don't limit yourself.

Susanne Mueller:

The current limits, the current limits, but don't limit yourself. So when I said, like I added caving to this resume, this probably was not my favorite sports activities that I've done, but I've done it because I wanted to challenge myself and I think we should challenge ourselves to do something new every year. Or they say, travel to another place every year or learn something new every year, and this can be very small but have a huge impact on yourself and you can create a good story.

Susannah Steers:

I do find that there's something about mixing it up a little bit, trying something that scares you a little bit, that's a little outside your comfort zone, and it does change how you think about yourself and you see the world in different ways and understand your place in the world in different ways. And that brings me to my next question, because I also see that you are someone who builds cross-cultural and mindfulness awareness in your work, and so it sounds as though the relational nature of things is important to you. When did that start and how has it evolved over your career?

Susanne Mueller:

I think that started in, I don't know. Sometimes I remember in second grade the teacher says hey, go and help this boy read better, and I was like why did you pick me? I don't know. I always say that's the start of helping others. That I probably have done all throughout my life. I like teaching and now coaching, probably advising, but in a way as a coach I don't tell you what to do, I'm suggesting or what I like to say. I'm motivating you or inspiring you maybe to follow in my footsteps. When I say I like to work out every other day or even every day, like some yoga, some stretching, that people are saying, oh, you have inspired me. I think that's kind of like the best reward that I get. But it's that helping others, inspiring others to do and get out of their comfort zone, I think that's what I like to do.

Susannah Steers:

And sometimes it's getting out of their own way, you know, in finding new pursuits. And I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast and this is purely for me because I'm curious I talk about being a kinesthetic learner and that has a very relational quality for me and my mindset and I'm curious would you characterize yourself that way or not? Maybe you've never thought about it? I don't know.

Susanne Mueller:

I actually have thought about it. In a way, I'm more of a visual learner, so if I see things, I learn or read. But then I started my podcast and I became more aware of the audio. So sometimes when I write a text now I review it and I listen to it, which I thought was so interesting. And I did some research on learning listening leading and that kinesthetic also came up and I was like, yeah, it's about that touching for me. So I don't know, can a person be all three?

Susannah Steers:

I'm certainly not an expert in any of this, but it seems to me that we're probably mixtures of all of them and maybe there are areas where we have strengths or less strengths. But I know for me that kinesthetic part is. You know, I always say I would have been a great at physics if I'd had somebody who could actually show me how things moved, as opposed to just looking at dry formulas on a page.

Susanne Mueller:

I think that's an interesting way, but when I give presentations or talks, I always make sure that I have a little bit for everybody and I address it in a talk. I just gave a leadership talk and I made sure that there was a video for somebody and then there was an activity for other people, so that you can mix it up, and I think this is also important. That's the Marathon mindset, right? So you need to break it up a little bit and you need to. What I think is important you need to meet the people where they are.

Susanne Mueller:

Don't assume it's where I am. It's meet the people where they are.

Susannah Steers:

Yeah, because otherwise there's no conversation to be had. Well, we met as part of, as I said earlier, Donna Cravotta's Real 50 Over 50 Project, so it's no secret that you and I are women of a certain age. How has your physicality, or your approach to it, changed as you moved into your menopausal years?

Susanne Mueller:

I have to say that sports actually has really, really helped me and I think to take care of myself and that might sound funny, but not to complain too much, like people have a headache of this.

Susanne Mueller:

I'm like with the marathon again, with the marathon mentality when you run like for three, four hours something might hurt and I thought like the menopause was also kind of like a marathon like, except you didn't know when you do. Then I think it was that being active have a healthy mindset and I think that healthy eating habits and also the regular sleeping habits is so, so important and I kept that. I'm just not good when I don't sleep well, so for me, sleeping is actually not that I sleep till 10 o'clock in the morning. My best time is 6.30, 7 o'clock to get up and then go to bed 9.30, 10. I think I kept that and I think it's that routine that helped me get through that, so it was not the most difficult time for me. I'm happy to help others when they go through that, but I think it's having those 10,000 steps moving your body is key to success going through menopause.

Susannah Steers:

I find it interesting and maybe this is just the world I'm in how many women sort of wake up in their perimenopausal years and recognize how important it is to look after themselves and their bodies. You know they've been busy with the kids and their careers and there's a lot going on in life and sometimes that self-care piece falls by the wayside when you're looking after so many things. But I find it really interesting how many women sort of wake up to the fact that oh, wait, a minute, I need to pay attention here. And it's wonderful when you start to see them coming back into themselves again and finding new ground in their physicality and in their movement and, as you say, paying attention to their sleep and to their nutrition and how powerful that is and changes the mindset, as you say.

Susanne Mueller:

And I think it's also surrounding yourself with the good people. Again, my marathon like I've been a running coach where women, we were more or less the same age and getting through this period of our lives together and supporting each other, I think is also a huge point to success, if you want to call it success.

Susannah Steers:

Well, I've heard many successful women talk about the idea that they can sometimes become invisible in their career paths as they hit middle age. Is there something that you might say to middle-aged women about the power of movement or the mindset or things that they can learn from their physical activity that they could bring into their work lives to ensure that they feel visible, relevant and important in the conversations they want to have?

Susanne Mueller:

Yeah, I had a colleague, a friend of mine now, in the running class and she says you know, I started running when I was, I don't know, 45, 50 years old and this is where I can thrive and be powerful and have the victory pose and get a medal. So this is freedom to me and I thought that was really cool to hear from her. I think now is the time to speak up, and we know the book Lean In. Actually, the psychologist Gilligan says it's not enough to lean in, we need to stand up, and I think in today's times, if people women think they are invisible, this is the wrong thing to do. And I always say if you get an invite to a meeting and you're like, why am I invited? You were chosen to be invited.

Susanne Mueller:

Have a seat at the table, have a question ready. You can always have a question ready that you can ask. You can. Basically what I coach many of my clients is have a question catalog and this is called the prepared spontaneity. You can always adapt your questions to the situation. So have a catalog ready, be ready to speak up and put the lipstick on. Women, have the extra power. Use a color that looks good on you. I never wear black because that doesn't look good on me. I wear blue because then my eyes pop out more. Put the lipstick on and don't sit like you have nothing to say. The Olympians when they have the medal on, they're proud. So be proud of what you have done, be proud what you have accomplished and just take that next step and take the big next step. I love this.

Susannah Steers:

I am going to include links to Susanne's website and her podcast and all the places that you can find her in the show notes. Susanne, thank you so much for joining me today. It has been an absolute pleasure.

Susanne Mueller:

Thank you for having me. I love to talk about this. I can talk for hours.

Susannah Steers:

Well, yes, I feel like we just touched the surface. We'll have to come back on this conversation another time.

Susanne Mueller:

I'd love to. I'd love to Anytime. Thank you so much for having me Take care.

Susannah Steers:

Bye-bye. Thank you, bye-bye. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Subscribe and if you love what you heard, leave a five-star review and tell people what you enjoyed most. Join me here again in a couple of weeks. For now, let's get moving.

People on this episode

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Susannah Steers

Host
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Susanne Mueller

Guest