Heart of Motion
The Heart of Motion Podcast is an exploration of the heart, soul and science of movement - and what it means in our lives.
Movement connects us more deeply to ourselves, to our bodies and to the things and people that are most important to us. Beyond a fitness routine, why do you move? And what moves you? When we can look past the hamster wheel of ''fitness" - we start to realize that when we really live the lives of our bodies - life can be a whole lot more fulfilling, and a whole lot more fun!
Host Susannah Steers is your guide on a quest to understand how we can move better, feel better in our bodies and connect more deeply to our people and the world around us. Join her for some conversation, interviews with experts, and conversations with everyday people about what movement means to them. You might just find movement feels a little different on the other side...
Heart of Motion
Embracing Authenticity: Marketing, Movement, and Midlife Transformation
What if you could align your business strategies with your true self, creating a life that reflects your core values and desires? Join me as I sit down with the influential Donna Cravotta, founder of Cravotta Media Group and the Be Visible Club Mastermind, to uncover the magic of authentic marketing and connection.
Discover how Donna's transformative journey toward authenticity has reshaped not only her business but also her personal life, allowing her to forge genuine relationships and enhance visibility through meaningful engagement rather than superficial tactics. Together, we explore the parallels between movement and marketing, championing the importance of listening to both clients and ourselves to foster connections that are as real as they are rewarding.
Prioritizing authentic interactions over fleeting trends, we delve into making deliberate choices that resonate with our true selves, urging a focus on meaningful connections, and relationships that align with who we are, and how we want to show up in the world.
About Donna Cravotta
Donna Cravotta, CEO and Founder of Cravotta Media Group, is the creator of BeVisible.club, a mastermind community, and The Real 50 over 50: The Wisdom Revolution, a visibility project that showcases interviews and panels with over 100 remarkable 50+ women.
With decades of experience in PR, marketing strategy, and online platform development, Donna identified a common issue among her clients: gaps in their stories that created gaps in their communications.
Determined to help authors, speakers, and small businesses, she spent two years re-evaluating her 40-year career, listening to small businesses’ needs, and redesigning her approach.
Today, Donna helps clients reconnect to their stories, blending proven strategies with innovative technology to find and engage their perfect audiences. Her clients find it empowering to see through a new lens and are poised for growth as they step into their purpose and become intentionally visible.
Cravotta Media Group website
The Real 50 After 50
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Heart of Motion Podcast host Susannah Steers is a Pilates & Integrated Movement Specialist and owner of Moving Spirit Pilates in North Vancouver, BC. She is passionate about movement, about connections and about life.
Through movement teaching, speaking, and facilitating workshops, she supports people in creating movement practices that promote fitness from the inside out. She loves building community, and participating in multi-disciplinary collaborations.
Along with her friend and colleague Gillian McCormick, Susannah also co-hosts The Small Conversations for a Better World podcast – an interview based podcast dedicated to promoting the kind of conversations about health that can spark positive change in individuals, families, communities and across the globe.
Social Media Links:
Moving Spirit Pilates Instagram
Moving Spirit Pilates Facebook
Susannah Steers Instagram
Welcome to the Heart of Motion podcast. I'm Susannah Steers and I'll be your host as we explore the heart, soul and science of movement as a pathway to more active, vibrant and connected living. Nothing happens until something moves, so let's get started.
Susannah Steers:You know, when you meet someone and somehow something about them just resonates. Well, when I met my guest today, I had that feeling. Donna Cravotta and I work in completely different fields and yet I'm continually surprised by the ways in which our work is similar. If you listened to the first episode of this podcast, you would have heard how much things like connections and relationships are meaningful for me in terms of movement, health and life in general. I decided I wanted to have a conversation with Donna to explore how some of those things show up in her world.
Susannah Steers:Donna Cravotta is the CEO and founder of Cravotta Media Group and the creator of Be Visible Club Mastermind. She's also the founder, heart and soul of the real 50 over 50, the Wisdom Revolution, which is a visibility project featuring over 100 women over the age of 50 who are quietly or not so quietly making a difference. After 40 years of work, Donna redesigned her own business to help authors, speakers and small business owners combine all of the parts of their stories and mix tried and true strategies with technology to be visible and to connect with their perfect audiences. I'm a curious soul and I was interested to look at some of the ways in which our worlds collide and what we might learn from each other along the way. Welcome to the podcast, Donna.
Donna Cravotta:Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm a curious soul too.
Susannah Steers:When I first started exploring the world of marketing and public relations, especially with respect to building my own business, I was met with all kinds of ideas and strategies, you know, those tips and tricks for how to bring business to my door, and it all felt super contrived and it never seemed to kind of resonate with me or, to be honest, to do much for me in terms of improving how people found me. People are used to hearing me talk about alignment, connections and relationships in terms of movement.
Susannah Steers:I'd really love to hear what they mean to you.
Donna Cravotta:Well those tips and tricks are often hacks and tactics, so they don't actually align with building relationships and elegant movement and connecting the parts. So I would say the first thing to do is stay away from the hacks and the tactics and use the most underutilized marketing skill that there is, which is listening.
Susannah Steers:Right. It's a hard thing to find in our world when everybody's sort of throwing stuff up on social media, quite literally vomiting it out there and it just seems like it's a loud, busy environment and people are doing and being things that maybe aren't what they're all about.
Donna Cravotta:Often with the best of intentions. People feel and this feeling is encouraged that they need to be somebody else online than who they are offline, and that cannot be further than the truth, because it's uncanny how people can recognize that you're not being yourself when they look at you, just what you're sharing online and this is the other thing that's a bit on the uncanny side is that when you just show up as you, people hear you through all of that noise, and it's not just people, it's the right people, because that connection is an undercurrent. It's not an algorithm, it's not an ad, it's not viral because you can't predict viral. It's this undercurrent where you just find each other. When you're saying the right things, when you care about the right things, when you value the same things, you find each other. And it's really. I've been doing this for years and it never ceases to amaze me. It works all the time and it doesn't matter what you do. It matters that you just show up as yourself matter what you do.
Donna Cravotta:It matters that you just show up as yourself.
Susannah Steers:Well, you know, you said something there in terms of showing up as not who you are and not getting the right responses. I guess not getting your message out. I find it interesting in terms of movement work, just because people often have an expectation about what it looks like. I teach Pilates for a living. I teach movement for a living. People have an expectation what it looks like, as I'm sure they do for what they think PR and visibility is all about.
Susannah Steers:And when you're not listening to what the client needs in terms of a teaching perspective, or even to what you yourself need as a client, when you're looking for a quick fix, it may seem like something that is attractive on the surface and you think, oh, I want that, but it may not be right for where you are at this time in the world or resonate with you as a human being. I am never going to be a sprinter. It is not going to happen. I could train all day and night to get there, but it's not really what I'm interested in. It's not really the life I want to lead and, honestly, I don't really think I have the body build for it. You know, the capacity that I have as a human being doesn't really align with that. So I find it fascinating that there are so many similarities. And why do you think we're so addicted to the quick fix?
Donna Cravotta:I think life is hard, business is hard, and a quick fix is very enticing and we want to believe it. We want to believe it's there and this is human nature. I mean, like, think of PT Barnum, you know. I mean it's appealing and if you've done this and you've kind of made some wrong choices, and it doesn't matter what business you're in, because you know, businesses are like bodies. There are no two that are the same. There is no one solution that's going to work for everyone. It just, it's just not true, you know.
Donna Cravotta:But we're, you know we, we have a lot on our plates and we've got a lot going on.
Donna Cravotta:And you know you layer in other things kids and family and traveling and illnesses and responsibilities and pets, and you know weather, I mean just like all the things.
Donna Cravotta:Just layer it all on and we all have a lot on our plates. And you know, when somebody comes with a very well crafted message and they're really good at selling and they make it, you know, they know your pain points and now there are tools that actually will identify your pain points and find you and add on to the words that you're using. And you know there's two ways that you can have that conversation. So you can have that conversation from a place of I'm going to sell you what I have, not what you need, which is you know often where we're buying into the quick fix and the shiny object and all of those things that never really you know it works for enough people to make other people attracted to it. But on the flip side, when you listen I mean just like when you work with a client you're listening to their body. You know what they need before they know what they need right.
Donna Cravotta:I do the same thing. I listen, I ask a lot of questions, I get curious. I get that same information that the swarmy salesperson is going to get, but I use it in a very different way.
Donna Cravotta:And what does that look like?
Donna Cravotta:Well, I communicate with my clients and find out what they need. I listen to how they respond to things and how they feel about certain things, because not everybody needs the same things in their businesses. You're not going to be a sprinter, but for somebody else that could be the solution to everything in their business by listening and having the conversation and watching the reactions, because often the reaction isn't going to be what the words are, and I'm sure that happens in your line of work too. Yeah, and then you know, I do some research and I do some poking around and I take the knowledge that I have and I mix it all together and I come up with solutions that are right, fit, that feel good when you put them on, that feel attainable Most of the time, they're not expensive and they're sustainable.
Donna Cravotta:What I really try to strive for is coming up with marketing solutions that are built on the things that don't change, and those are the building of the relationships, the creation of elegant systems, the creation of content that you can use in a multitude of ways, so it's not a waste of time to create, and that it's in a format that you enjoy.
Donna Cravotta:If you love doing videos, don't sit down and churn out 2000 word blog posts because you're going to hate every minute of it and that is going to come through in what you're writing and that's not going to attract people, because what you're writing and that's I mean, that's not going to attract people, because what they're feeling is, oh my God, this is terrible. And using it in a way that feels good to you, because if it feels good to you and you enjoy it, that's what you're going to put through and that undercurrent with your content and whether it be written or audio or video or whatever other format we're going to have in the future, who knows, I'm kidding. I'm kidding that it feels right to you and the rest of it just doesn't matter.
Susannah Steers:What's coming up for me as I listen to you there is that it's got to be right for you, and Pilates is a system that works really well and it works really well for a lot of people. Some people love it just because it's Pilates and a system that works really well, and it works really well for a lot of people. Some people love it just because it's Pilates and they love it in and of itself. For me, despite the fact that I run a Pilates studio, I'm not in love with fitness. What I'm in love with is the ability to move well in the world, to do the things that I love to do, and that is what I really love to see in my clients is seeing what becomes possible when you create the right conditions in the body for those things to happen, and it seems to me that that's a lot like what you're doing with people.
Donna Cravotta:I've had a past client called me the Pilates of social media because I focused on the little things. I didn't. I never did Facebook ads or anything like that. Even when everyone was going in that direction, I was, like it feels so contrived. I don't like I listen and you know I can connect with those people I need to connect with without doing that.
Donna Cravotta:I would use the tools of the Facebook ads to do research and then I would go off on my merry way and connect with the people and yeah, I mean it has to feel good. It has to feel good Like if you were doing a form of exercise that you were injured every time you did it, would you keep doing it? Not a chance. It's got to be in accordance with everything else that you're doing. It should be a compliment, not something that takes you in a sharp alternate direction. It shouldn't be something that you have to like stop what you're doing in your regular day to the point where it's detrimental to your schedule, to your time, to your wellbeing, and a lot of people just create systems like that and they create strategies that just don't work in the rhythm of your life, you know.
Susannah Steers:And you can't keep doing that.
Donna Cravotta:It's not sustainable and you'll never get the results you want because you're really not going to like it. I mean, the magic to all of this is showing who you are, and if you're showing who you are when you're frustrated and pissed off, you're not coming with your best self. Attract the right people.
Susannah Steers:It seems like there's a lot of putting together the fundamentals, the small pieces, the little things that hold things together in your work. Is that true?
Donna Cravotta:yes, very much so. Um, and and that's the part that people overlook when they are looking to move fast and 10x things and you know, automate over automate things where you lose the human connection.
Donna Cravotta:I've had clients that the only strategy I gave them was to comment on other people's posts. You know, go figure out your voice, figure out your audience, connect with people. And you know, by commenting on other people's posts, you really kind of get into the groove of the conversation and you start to, you know, see what people care about. Without it being a strategy, you're just there in a conversation, you know, and you're connecting with people and you're meeting new people and you're seeing what other people care about. They're sharing books that they read or podcasts that they listened to, or an event that they went to or a hike that they went on, whatever it may be, but you're learning in real time, in real life experience, about people that you might want to connect with.
Donna Cravotta:And once you have that, I mean everything else kind of falls away. And when I start to work with people, they get defensive and they're like well, I'm already doing this and this and this and this and this, I can't do another thing. And my next question is and how's it working for you? Yes, because if you stop doing this and this and this and this and this, you'll have 15, 20 minutes a day to go comment on somebody's posts.
Susannah Steers:Well. I guess, then, when you're in alignment and you've listened and you're finding people that you actually genuinely want to work with and I find that the same with exercise, right you start to feel into your own body and to understand what feels really good and what is feeling not so good. And what about that is just a capacity issue, like you say, like you know, maybe it's physical capacity in the body, maybe it's time you know whatever that capacity is, or maybe it's a misalignment and maybe it's figuring out.
Donna Cravotta:Okay, this is not what I wanted to be doing and this is not where I want to be, or I spoke to somebody the other day and she's got a small publishing company and she was trying to get me to bother with her to do social media for her clients who were not even my clients and I just said no, and she goes what do you mean? No, I said no, she goes. Why? I said because it's it's not a valuable use of my time. And she said but you have to do social media. I said you don't have to do anything. There's no have to here. I love that. And I said how's it working? And she goes it's not. I said then why do you have to do it? Like whose edict was that?
Susannah Steers:Well, we seem to get a lot of those edicts, though. I mean, it's the same thing, I think, with health and exercise. Right, it's like you got to do this, you got to do that, you got to do the other thing, and if you look at all the things that you're supposed to do, do you have time to actually live your life?
Donna Cravotta:no.
Susannah Steers:So I think, finding the things that feel the best for you, that are going to make an impact and, yes, you can look at, as you say, sort of what are the tried and true, what are the things that we know work, and let's skip the trends, let's skip all the fancy stuff you know
Donna Cravotta:Make it boring!
Donna Cravotta:Do the things that work yeah, and the thing that here's the other thing that happens too, because we are listening to the gurus and falling in the pool of bright and shiny, we tend to emulate a business model that is totally unrelated to what we need, and we're trying to do something that somebody that has like a team of 10 people and affiliates, you know, like affiliate partners that will sell thousands of dollars worth of stuff on the on your behalf, and there's very few people that actually have that. So why are we building businesses to support that when it's not what we need? So like maybe the second thing I ask people is well, what do you actually want, like, what do you need? What will make you happy? How much money do you need to make? How much time do you have?
Donna Cravotta:What do you hate doing? What do you love doing? And much money do you need to make? How much time do you have? What do you hate doing? What do you love doing? And from there we start to kind of craft things because build what's going to move the needle for you. I mean most of the people that I work with. They need 20 clients a year. Why are you building all of it?
Donna Cravotta:You can spend - I mean, if you connect with five new people a week on a social media platform of your choice, at the end of the year there will be 241 people that are real people that are aligned with who you are and what you do, and that's a significant addition to your community. You can't do that with Facebook ads. You can't do that with Facebook ads, you can't do that with automation. You can only do that by showing up.
Susannah Steers:And, as you say, listening and talking to people, you know it's not about the bots creating stuff for you.
Donna Cravotta:And it's totally free and you can spend 15 minutes a day doing it Right free and you can spend 15 minutes a day doing it Right so that you can cut out. Now I have to write 2,000 word articles and break them up and schedule them and upload them and that's not going to get you what you want. That is contributing to all of the noise. That's not what people hear. They hear Charlie Brown's teacher, right Wah wah.
Donna Cravotta:But spend that. I mean just amuse yourself, amuse me. Go spend 15 minutes this week, every day, and just find people that you like and say hello Say hello Say oh, I love this post. This is what I learned from reading the article you shared. Oh, I like that podcast too. What was your favorite episode? I've read that book five times. What's your favorite chapter to you? And I love that? I mean.
Susannah Steers:I can see it super clearly with the Real 50 Over 50 Project and in all of your work. What's important for you in the stories that people tell?
Donna Cravotta:I'm going to just talk about the 50 Over 50 Project now and um. Earlier today we did the 88th interview and we've done 11 panels so far and every time I do an interview I learn something. I have a deeper connection with someone. There's always an introduction either I'm introducing them to people, they're introducing me to people. So my audience has grown very intentionally. I know people in the community and I've kept it very, very fluid.
Donna Cravotta:People in the community have connected with each other. I mean, like I'm in New York and you're in Vancouver and I connected you with two people in the last week. That's so crazy In Vancouver. I mean, like what are the chances? And it's just from having these conversations, sharing our stories, sharing our hearts, you know, sharing our experiences and when you do that there's a connection and that connection becomes part of that undercurrent. So now they're going to go seek me out on social media. I'm going to follow them. We're going to say you know, one of the things I love is going into LinkedIn when I meet somebody and seeing, oh my God, we have 74 common connections. How have we never met before?
Susannah Steers:And that happens a lot. It's amazing.
Donna Cravotta:And you can see, like the avenues of people and like you know where we were probably in the same room at the same time, and and that's a conversation in itself, yeah, like then you could start talking about these common connections and you've had this experience with this person and this experience with this person and you feel like you know somebody now because of the common connections that you have. And when you build a community like that, I mean you don't need a lot of people, because everyone means something, even if you've never met them in real life. I haven't met most of the people I know in real life.
Susannah Steers:There's something in the stories too, and maybe this is just me getting excited about it as a woman who's over 50 and looking at this third act of my life and trying to figure out what that means. There is really something powerful in the wisdom that women in particular share with each other at this stage. And I love what you're doing with this.
Donna Cravotta:This is another alignment with our different fields of work. People often call this reinvention. You know, as you're in your 50s, your 60s, you know it's the second act, it's the third act. Whatever you want to call it, call it what you like. What it actually is is remembering, because we don't need to be reinvented. We're already perfectly fine the way we are and we're remembering the parts that we put down, that we gave away, that we forgot about, and part of what I help people do is pull those things together through their stories, through their content, finding those things Like.
Donna Cravotta:I'm working with a client now who, through going through this process that I used to call a content audit which nobody wants to do a content audit I call it tried and new now, because you take the things that are tried and true and you edit them and you mix them with things that are new and then you create something. It's like you're upcycling your life, you're upcycling your story, and she remembered a book that she wrote in Paris. She spent a month in Paris 14 years ago and wrote like three quarters of a book that's sitting on an online folder somewhere that is now being repurposed into the foundation of the work that she does. These are the principles of the work that she does. Wow, it's such a hard time talking about what she does because it's very specific. And now it all fell into place because this book that she wrote.
Susannah Steers:She already had the foundations.
Donna Cravotta:She had it. It's been there for 14 years. She forgot about it.
Susannah Steers:We don't have to remake ourselves. We are already enough as we are. We just need to remember and polish things a little bit.
Donna Cravotta:It's a little reorganization. When I was in the middle of figuring this out because I took myself through this process I took myself through what I was calling a content audit and I was like, wow, I'm really missing the boat on this one. But I was able to see what I was actually doing with clients and it was so much more valuable than I was giving it credit for, because I was going from a tactical perspective. I was not going from a perspective where I was looking at the full picture. You know and it is also an emotional piece to it that I was not healed enough from things that happened in my life to put myself in the middle of that emotional place. So it really takes an act of bravery to go and do this and courage to look through these different parts of your life and literally decide what stays, what goes, what could be turned into something else, what could be recycled, what could be given away and what could be sold.
Susannah Steers:I mean it's inspiring to me when I think about it in the context of a life, in the context of a body having a life, you know, a person living in a body living a life and all the things that that might mean. It's pretty powerful stuff.
Donna Cravotta:It really is, because when you start to remember, oh my God, I did that and I stopped because my mother died, that's emotional and you have to go through that. And you have to go through those feelings again and recognize, well, do I need that, or was that a trauma response? And it could be with relationships too. It could be like oh, I've got this business partner that I worked with and this is no longer healthy for me and having to let that go and ending certain relationships so there can be new relationships.
Donna Cravotta:So it's not a checklist, it's really a rite of passage.
Susannah Steers:It requires us, I think, to give ourselves a little bit of grace and a little bit of compassion, for you know what might've been going on for us over the years.
Donna Cravotta:and a little bit of. I don't give a shit anymore.
Susannah Steers:Well, yes, that too. Yeah, I'm not going to take it anymore, I'm not doing it that way anymore. Screw that, yeah, I would agree with you there for sure.
Donna Cravotta:And that's why this really resonates for women in the 50, 60, 70 age range, Because we're at that point where we've done the things, we've made the mistakes, we've had the successes, we know what we like, we know what we don't like, and you know we've got more years behind us than in front of us. Yeah, we're not willing to waste the time, and it's a really beautiful time of life if you embrace it and you and you courageously step in to making the choices that are right for you. Yeah, and that's how I approach my marketing as well, Because if you're going to be doing that in your life, why are you not doing that in your business? I?
Susannah Steers:love it.
Donna Cravotta:Why are you not doing that in your body? There needs to be an alignment between those three things as well.
Susannah Steers:Well, I think there's a saying that I love. That is a physiotherapist that I've worked with in the past. This was one of her sayings, and it's every movement is a whole body movement.
Donna Cravotta:And.
Susannah Steers:I believe that's true on a larger scale. You know, it's that butterfly effect thing Everything we do has an effect and it might not seem like a big deal, but all of the little things that we do add up and they create the whole of who we are and how we live and breathe in the world. I'm curious to bring you into my world for a minute, because I ask everybody this question what does movement mean to you?
Donna Cravotta:It means freedom.
Susannah Steers:Oh, I love that. Tell me more.
Donna Cravotta:If you can't move, you're stuck. You have to rely on somebody else or something to be able to move. If you're in a wheelchair, you can't move without that wheelchair. If you need a cane, you can't move without that cane.
Susannah Steers:A layer of independence.
Donna Cravotta:Yeah, it's more than independence. It's freedom.
Susannah Steers:It's freedom to be able to go where you want, do what you want, you know, be free of pain. Are there things that you like to do, to play or to? How do you like to move around in the world?
Donna Cravotta:You know, I've had a significant health issue for the last couple of years, so it really impacted my, my emotion and my movement and, um, you know, I'm starting to feel better than I have in a long time and I'm starting really slow and it's very frustrating for me. I was like let's go ride 70 miles on my bicycle. Now I could barely get on my bicycle and it's been an adjustment and it's been a lesson in acceptance that maybe I will never be able to ride 70 miles on my bicycle.
Susannah Steers:Maybe I can.
Donna Cravotta:I don't know, I'm not saying that I can't, I'm just saying, you know, maybe I can't and I might need to accept that and like Pilates, I was doing Pilates four times a week and I had to stop because I couldn't lay down and exercise because my heart would go into palpitations. Oh wow, yeah. So you know, I, I have. I, that was like four years ago. I had to stop and I still don't feel comfortable doing it.
Susannah Steers:Lying down? Yeah. Again, it comes back to the elements, the capacities, the pieces, and I find that's where even the small things, you know, the small fundamental pieces, the little things we can do, even the three minutes a day, as you say, or the five minutes a week, or you know, however that shows up. It's frustrating when you're you've had the capacity and you've had the, you have a brain memory and a body memory of riding 70 miles and you want to do that, and that's a frustrating thing when you have to readjust that, that perspective, and and find a new path thing when you have to readjust that, that perspective and and find a new path.
Donna Cravotta:Um, so then I just say, okay, well, I'll walk up and down the steps five times, see what happens, yeah, and I'm just you know, but it was, it was. I had to learn to accept it and I fought that. It was hard, but it wasn't in my best interest not to. I didn't take it from the perspective of failure or that it will never happen, just that it might not. And if it doesn't, there will be something else and it'll be okay.
Susannah Steers:Yeah, and I think sometimes that level of acceptance shows the doorway to different ways of doing things, if you've been used to approaching it in a particular way.
Donna Cravotta:It also made it feel more possible because I wasn't digging in my heels, you know.
Donna Cravotta:Yeah, All these things the connections, the alignments, the acceptance, the relationships it's all different kinds of relationships with ourselves and with the world and it's pretty exciting and like when you do build these relationships, with these different aspects of your life, with things that you never really thought you would have a relationship with, you know it really does align everything else, because then these pieces now come together in a different way and they complement each other, they're not butting up against each other.
Susannah Steers:It's a beautiful alchemy, yeah Well, for people who are interested in learning more about you and about your work, I will put a bunch of links in the show notes about all the places you Donna, but where is the best place for people to connect with you?
Donna Cravotta:Just go to my website. You could link to everything from there. It's cravottamediagroup. com, and you can find my social links on there and links to the Real 50 Over 50 and all of my services and things and whatever else I happen to be up to. It's all there.
Susannah Steers:You know, I continue to find all these ways that we resonate or that I resonate with your work in so many ways. Thank you for taking the time with me today. It has been an absolute pleasure talking to you.
Donna Cravotta:Pleasure has been all mine. I always enjoy spending time with you and I really love to find ways where what I do aligns with different types of work and different types of industries, because it really is about connection. It's not about all of the other things that people push.
Susannah Steers:Well from my heart. Thank you and bye-bye.
Susannah Steers:I hope you enjoyed today's episode. Subscribe and if you love what you heard, leave a five-star review and tell people what you enjoyed most. Join me here again in a couple of weeks For now let's get moving.
